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CSS 2.0
 Rep: 35 

Re: DJ ASHBA: AXL ROSE wanted me to be a part of GNR Reunion

CSS 2.0 wrote:

How can people doubt that Bumblefoot played the Shackler's Revenge solo?

I don't wanna sound like a dick but... Come on!

Have another listen, please.

James Lofton wrote:

He was always a hardcore 2001-02 lineup fan(like me) and wanted CD II more than anything, including fresh material or a reunion.

I am (or rather was) in the same boat.

In hindsigt I just wish Axl would have left Guns N' Roses behind when things went pear-shaped and instead started fresh by creating a new band with those people much earlier on.

Could have been truly earth shattering but unfortunately it is too late for that. Especially when considering that it never actually happened in the first place.

What a shame.

The ability to quantum leap through time cannot come soon enough as I feel an urgent need to rewrite that particular part of history right now.

bigbri
 Rep: 336 

Re: DJ ASHBA: AXL ROSE wanted me to be a part of GNR Reunion

bigbri wrote:

Not sure what we're arguing about, but the CD liner notes are like this.

2. SHACKLER’S REVENGE
(Rose, Carroll, Costanzo, Mantia, Scaturro)

"Guitars: Buckethead, Robin Finck, Ron “Bumblefoot” Thal
Drums: Brain
Bass: Tommy Stinson
Keyboards: Dizzy Reed, Chris Pitman
Sub bass: Chris Pitman
Guitar Solos: Ron “Bumblefoot” Thal
Vocals: Axl Rose
Arrangement: Rose, Costanzo, Carroll, Mantia, Scaturro
Digital Editing: Eric Caudieux, Caram Costanzo, Axl Rose"

Buckethead (Carroll), Brain and Peter Scaturro, otherwise known as the men behind the band Giant Robot, are credited with writing the song in part. Ron does the solos. But, they were most likely written by Bucket and Co., considering the song sounds like it could be on any Bucket album in the 1990s if it were an instrumental.

So, I'm guessing Ron did a solo based on what was written or what Bucket did originally. Could he have come up with the solo himself? Maybe, but considering he has no writing credit or arrangement credit (again, basically Giant Robot), I'm guessing no. Just because he's listed as "guitar solos" doesn't mean he wrote it. If he wrote it, he'd get credit.

And just to drive the point home, in another part of the liner notes: "Initial production Shackler’s Revenge: Pete Scaturro, Bryan Mantia"

Again, not sure what the argument was. I'd just love to hear the Bucket version.

misterID
 Rep: 460 

Re: DJ ASHBA: AXL ROSE wanted me to be a part of GNR Reunion

misterID wrote:

Axl said in one of the chats that he hears Bucket all over Shacklers, with no offense meant to Ron.

evader
 Rep: 26 

Re: DJ ASHBA: AXL ROSE wanted me to be a part of GNR Reunion

evader wrote:
monkeychow wrote:

If you go back to the Rock Band mogg file leaks, Bucket's original solo was extended longer than Ron's, Axl (or Caram or whoever) clipped it,

You can hear very faintly in the background of the rock-band clips the original solo (mute all but vocals and additional instruments and you an hear some soft spill noise from the performer's playback) - but it's basically almost inaudible and not much use for the purposes of telling if the subsequent bumble-foot solo had any resemblance to it.

If anything, you could probably say that it was significantly different as that's why it's obvious that the spill is from an older take and not the album version.

I agree with MC about the spill from the older take. Some notes from that buried solo (during the humph, humph part) are definitely audible from the Rock Band Additional Instruments track, and Bumble played something completely different on the final release.

TheSundanceKid
 Rep: 30 

Re: DJ ASHBA: AXL ROSE wanted me to be a part of GNR Reunion

James Lofton wrote:

Yeah I gotta back ID up on this specific issue. Axlin I think you're mixing him up with someone else. There were definitely some people here that wanted a DJ lineup to record new material....ID not being one of them. He was always a hardcore 2001-02 lineup fan(like me) and wanted CD II more than anything, including fresh material or a reunion.

Hardcore Buckethead / Finck lineup fans unite!

misterID
 Rep: 460 

Re: DJ ASHBA: AXL ROSE wanted me to be a part of GNR Reunion

misterID wrote:
evader wrote:
monkeychow wrote:

If you go back to the Rock Band mogg file leaks, Bucket's original solo was extended longer than Ron's, Axl (or Caram or whoever) clipped it,

You can hear very faintly in the background of the rock-band clips the original solo (mute all but vocals and additional instruments and you an hear some soft spill noise from the performer's playback) - but it's basically almost inaudible and not much use for the purposes of telling if the subsequent bumble-foot solo had any resemblance to it.

If anything, you could probably say that it was significantly different as that's why it's obvious that the spill is from an older take and not the album version.

I agree with MC about the spill from the older take. Some notes from that buried solo (during the humph, humph part) are definitely audible from the Rock Band Additional Instruments track, and Bumble played something completely different on the final release.

Fucking Ron. I need to hear this. Is there anyway to tell how good it was, or is Bucket's solo basically just noise?

monkeychow
 Rep: 634 

Re: DJ ASHBA: AXL ROSE wanted me to be a part of GNR Reunion

monkeychow wrote:
bigbri wrote:

But, they were most likely written by Bucket and Co., considering the song sounds like it could be on any Bucket album in the 1990s if it were an instrumental.

So, I'm guessing Ron did a solo based on what was written or what Bucket did originally. Could he have come up with the solo himself? Maybe, but considering he has no writing credit or arrangement credit (again, basically Giant Robot), I'm guessing no. Just because he's listed as "guitar solos" doesn't mean he wrote it. If he wrote it, he'd get credit.

I would agree that it's very obvious bucket was the one who came up with the guitar progression and the riffs, but to me it's real speculation to say that because he wrote that, then  Ron's solo is a copy of Bucket's original solo.

Does it sound like it fits in Bucket's style? Yes. But then it's not really a surprise that Ron would add something that sounds like bucket's style over the top of guitar riffs that were in bucket's style! More importantly, it also sounds a LOT like Ron - the fretless, the chirping use of sliding harmonics when he plays, and the outro tapping riffs are distinctive Bumblefoot hallmarks - just the same way that bucket has many tell-tale tricks in his playing like the killswitch, those atonal runs, whammy pedal etc. Like how you can hear Bucket's solo in CD is bucket a mile off.

I would say it's pretty clear Bumble composed his own solo using his own go-to devices put picked something appropriate to the rest of the track which as Axl said is dripping with Bucket! To say otherwise is like saying Slash wrote the sorry solo because it's in his style.

As for the writing credit, it's quite common not to get a writing credit just for a guitar solo - although it depends on the band - but traditionally publishing stuff ends up about the lyrics and melody overall - stuff like solos and drum fills gets ignored. Hell look what happened to slash on estranged!

No one is disputing the original production was Brain and Bucket though.....I'm just saying that because we're fans of Bucket there's no reason to attribute someone else's work to him - he's great enough on his own. There wasn't much left to do for poor bumble when he joined - all he really got was 3 guitar solos and a handful of riffing here and there - and then he waited for 7 years for the follow up that didn't happen....let him have his moment! The linear notes say he played it, he says he developed it, it sounds like something he wrote..so there's no real reason to minimise that just cos the rest of the track is buckethead.

monkeychow
 Rep: 634 

Re: DJ ASHBA: AXL ROSE wanted me to be a part of GNR Reunion

monkeychow wrote:
misterID wrote:

Fucking Ron. I need to hear this. Is there anyway to tell how good it was, or is Bucket's solo basically just noise?

It's VERY VERY quiet - I assume because it's the sound of performer headphone playback that was up loud being captured by the mics trained on the performer.

So it sounds like if you can hear someone listening to a walkman too loud in the next room or something - it's not really possible to make out the notes to much or anything you can just sort of hear something playing - but you can tell from the phrasing it's not the modern solo. From the tiny bit that you can hear I would say it sounds like a lot of fast high notes. More like one of bucket's atonal runs that go all-over the shop (in a good way) or like some really high sweeps with taps like in the final bit of soothsayer. But then again it could also be some crazy keys or something. You can't really put it up loud enough to tell either as it's on the same track and those percussive "humph" noises in the background of the solo - so if you crank it they drown it out. But it's there.

I would love to hear the original properly just for guitar nerdism, even though I like Ron's solo too.

Who knows - maybe you guys would like Bucket's solo more - I've just been feeling it's not really fair to Ron to deny his role in writing and performing that guitar solo.

elevendayempire
 Rep: 84 

Re: DJ ASHBA: AXL ROSE wanted me to be a part of GNR Reunion

I think based on the differences between Bucket and Bumble's Riad solos, it's more likely that Bumble wrote something new for Shackler's (possibly "in the style" of Bucket, but bringing his own angle on the material – as he did with Catcher). To me, Shackler's sounds like a very "Bumblefoot" solo, it's of a piece with his solo work (heavy use of the fretless, harmonics etc).

But then, we know from Brian May that Axl chopped and changed bits from solo takes to assemble something that he liked, and then had the guitarist record that – hence why Bumble's Catcher solo sounds much like the Brian May one. I suspect it's likely to be six of one and half a dozen of the other – Axl already had an idea of what the solo should sound like, and Bumble worked within those constraints to produce something new, with his signature flourishes.

monkeychow
 Rep: 634 

Re: DJ ASHBA: AXL ROSE wanted me to be a part of GNR Reunion

monkeychow wrote:

Exactly. It has has some thimble taps which was pretty much invented by bumble I think.

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