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Re: US Politics Thread
bigbri wrote:Trump is actually making Kim look like the least crazy of the two.
Military solutions are now fully in place,locked and loaded,should North Korea act unwisely. Hopefully Kim Jong Un will find another path!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 11, 2017This is pretty terrifying in its stupidity. He's literally daring Kim to strike first. That seems like a bad strategy. NK needs to be dealt with; trying to provoke the enemy to strike isn't the way to do it.
I was thinking the same thing...
It's getting to the point where Trump is talking so recklessly they need to realistically consider removing him from office. Trump has just made a red line, just now, saying he'll vaguely do something even if NK makes another threat.
Well he drew the line a couple of days ago and NK's response was basically, you're a senile idiot and we plan on shooting missiles near Guam next week. In other words, they immediately crossed his line.
Re: US Politics Thread
I think we need to take military action. For over 2 decades now we've appeased North Korea, and now they're months or a year away from being able to strike the US. Kim is threatening to strike Guam. At what point do we say "enough is enough" and act to prevent this from becoming much worse. Russia and China aren't going to stop or respond militarily if the US takes out Kim. They'll bitch and yell, but they won't act and neither will the UN or the EU.
It's nor going to be pretty and people will die, but somehow the idea of Americans dying to make the world a better place has become taboo and people pretend we live in a bubble where there's always a peaceful answer. NK can't hit the US yet, so why not act now before a US strike could result in LA or SF being hit.
I'm sure millions of people would have preferred Chamberlain acted in 1935 rather than waiting until 1940 to stop Hitler.
Wait a minute....
You used to criticize me(harshly I might add) for making similar suggestions. I think you agreed to a certain extent if we HAD to go in(do it Desert Storm style) but I'd like to know what makes this crisis so much more important than the one that happened on Obama's watch a few years back.
I know many consider Obama a pussy but we came damn close to doing it. Kim blinked and ran back down into his basement.
Threat to Guam the tripwire? Fuck...they threatened US a few years back.
I agree...something needs to be done. Hell...its 20-30 years overdue. I'm just not sure if now is the time to do it.
Korea is heavy shit. Its why every president throws the hot potato to the next one.
As you well know(and probably a lot more than me) that is a HUGE gamble to say Russia and China aren't going to do anything. China was at the border waiting for Obama to flush the bombers. Was it a bluff? Maybe....but to use the words of Woody Allen....
Never bluff a bluffer.
China won't act because they don't want a United Korea under the western friendly South.
Wait, what?
Isn't that the exact reason they act or am I reading that incorrectly? A US vassal state at the border of China is not something China is interested in. Lets not forget about Russia's border.
We're playing with fire here.
We need a Reagan or a kennedy to light the match....not a Trump. One wrong move in there and its the quagmire to end all quagmires.
The question you need to ask is would you rather 3 million Koreans die to prevent 300k Americans from dying. It's not even a debate for me.
When worded like that. default answer is yes.
If this goes down I want it handed to the military full throttle and Trump stay out of the way. The thought of Trump sitting there looking at a map and making the decisions is absolutely frightening.
Lol...NK isn't even close to a threat.
Yes they are. They were a threat when a near identical crisis happened a few years back. I realize you and Flagg aren't too fond of each other these days but no need to disagree when he says the sky is blue.
This is a big deal. China saying if Kim is stopped, they'll attack the US.
I knew they were going to. Its just like last time.
Trump is actually making Kim look like the least crazy of the two.
Military solutions are now fully in place,locked and loaded,should North Korea act unwisely. Hopefully Kim Jong Un will find another path!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 11, 2017This is pretty terrifying in its stupidity. He's literally daring Kim to strike first. That seems like a bad strategy. NK needs to be dealt with; trying to provoke the enemy to strike isn't the way to do it.
That is frightening.
I want him off of twitter. Its like we have a 12 year old throwing a temper tantrum running the show.
That damn phone and social media should be the last things on his mind right now.
It's getting to the point where Trump is talking so recklessly they need to realistically consider removing him from office.
Yeah I'm getting awfully close to agreeing with this.
He just threatened Venezuela with military action....
I looked this up. I thought you were joking.
Sweet baby jesus....
Re: US Politics Thread
Ana Navarro's tweet on the issue was on page one of google.
In case you've been away from tv for the last 30 minutes, Trump now has us at brink of war w/North Korea AND Venezuela. Have a nice weekend.
— Ana Navarro-Cárdenas (@ananavarro) August 11, 2017
We're truly living in a reality TV show.
yesterday...North Korea. Today...Venezuela. Tomorrow? Tune in!
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: US Politics Thread
Randall Flagg wrote:I think we need to take military action. For over 2 decades now we've appeased North Korea, and now they're months or a year away from being able to strike the US. Kim is threatening to strike Guam. At what point do we say "enough is enough" and act to prevent this from becoming much worse. Russia and China aren't going to stop or respond militarily if the US takes out Kim. They'll bitch and yell, but they won't act and neither will the UN or the EU.
It's nor going to be pretty and people will die, but somehow the idea of Americans dying to make the world a better place has become taboo and people pretend we live in a bubble where there's always a peaceful answer. NK can't hit the US yet, so why not act now before a US strike could result in LA or SF being hit.
I'm sure millions of people would have preferred Chamberlain acted in 1935 rather than waiting until 1940 to stop Hitler.
Wait a minute....
You used to criticize me(harshly I might add) for making similar suggestions. I think you agreed to a certain extent if we HAD to go in(do it Desert Storm style) but I'd like to know what makes this crisis so much more important than the one that happened on Obama's watch a few years back.
I know many consider Obama a pussy but we came damn close to doing it. Kim blinked and ran back down into his basement.
Threat to Guam the tripwire? Fuck...they threatened US a few years back.
I agree...something needs to be done. Hell...its 20-30 years overdue. I'm just not sure if now is the time to do it.
Korea is heavy shit. Its why every president throws the hot potato to the next one.
As you well know(and probably a lot more than me) that is a HUGE gamble to say Russia and China aren't going to do anything. China was at the border waiting for Obama to flush the bombers. Was it a bluff? Maybe....but to use the words of Woody Allen....
Never bluff a bluffer.
China won't act because they don't want a United Korea under the western friendly South.
Wait, what?
Isn't that the exact reason they act or am I reading that incorrectly? A US vassal state at the border of China is not something China is interested in. Lets not forget about Russia's border.
We're playing with fire here.
We need a Reagan or a kennedy to light the match....not a Trump. One wrong move in there and its the quagmire to end all quagmires.
The question you need to ask is would you rather 3 million Koreans die to prevent 300k Americans from dying. It's not even a debate for me.
When worded like that. default answer is yes.
If this goes down I want it handed to the military full throttle and Trump stay out of the way. The thought of Trump sitting there looking at a map and making the decisions is absolutely frightening.
Lol...NK isn't even close to a threat.
Yes they are. They were a threat when a near identical crisis happened a few years back. I realize you and Flagg aren't too fond of each other these days but no need to disagree when he says the sky is blue.
This is a big deal. China saying if Kim is stopped, they'll attack the US.
I knew they were going to. Its just like last time.
bigbri wrote:Trump is actually making Kim look like the least crazy of the two.
Military solutions are now fully in place,locked and loaded,should North Korea act unwisely. Hopefully Kim Jong Un will find another path!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 11, 2017This is pretty terrifying in its stupidity. He's literally daring Kim to strike first. That seems like a bad strategy. NK needs to be dealt with; trying to provoke the enemy to strike isn't the way to do it.
That is frightening.
I want him off of twitter. Its like we have a 12 year old throwing a temper tantrum running the show.
That damn phone and social media should be the last things on his mind right now.
It's getting to the point where Trump is talking so recklessly they need to realistically consider removing him from office.
Yeah I'm getting awfully close to agreeing with this.
He just threatened Venezuela with military action....
I looked this up. I thought you were joking.
Sweet baby jesus....
Obama didn't face an ICBM. If NK attacks Seoul, we take out their military bases, but we leave Kim in place and wait for UN or Allied support.
If they hit Guam, it's a different ball game. That's an act of war. If that happens I support any and all action to destroy NK to the point no further attacks are possible. I'm not saying we setup shop like in Iraq. But we destroy their war machine and confiscate their nuclear material. Let China have the terroritiry and work out UN aide. Stay on stand by incase any hostile group tries to organize, and respond with total force to anihilate it.
Kim now has an ICBM that can hit anywhere. They think he may have the capability to put a nuclear warhead on it. I don't know if that's true. The CIA needs to find out. But if we accept that NK getting an armed ICBM is inevitable, then we accept there's a chance they'll use it on the US. If we accept NK will use it on the US, or believe there's an unacceptable chance they would use it, it's only humanitarian and logical to destroy that threat now, rather than delay to when NK is capable of inflicting more horror. That saves lives in the end. Because a US response to a nuclear strike would be scorched earth.
Draft a military action. Require a thorough assessment with allied intelligence. Then go to Congress. Trump has the authority to strike first, and absolute authority to respond if we were attacked. But he should attempt to gain Congressional support by pleading his case domestically and globally. The decision is Trump's alone to make. Mattis is an amazing SoD, and Tillerson is working to handle it diplomatically. They'll give him great advice, and I'm sure other channels are being utilized. But he owes it to the American people to get approval from Congress and the public.
And desert storm was a precise military action. We bombed the shit out of them and drove them out of Kuwait with no combat losses. It was as perfect as a strike as one can think of.
The invasion of Iraq under Bush was a fucking huge success. We destroyed their Army in under a month. Conquered Baghdad and captured Saddam. We won. Where we struggled was putting up a friendly, competent government and stabilizing the country. But in the end we all but squashed the resistance and turned the country over to Iraq after building it back up and training the new army. But then ISIS popped up and crushed their weak ass Army. We ultimately failed to create a stable country capable of standing on its own.
But Saddam wasn't threatening to Nuke the US. My argument was always, a sovereign nation can use technology as they want. Iraq could have nuclear energy and capabilities. It's only if they threaten us, do we have an obligation to act. I don't care what he did to the Kurds, just as I don't care what Assad did to his people. Or what Duerte does in the Phillipines or Madduro does in Venezuela. But if they have nukes and threaten to use them against us, I say we assess that threat and respond accordingly. Iraq didn't pose a threat, so I didn't give a shit. Just as I didn't give a shit about the Taliban. Kill those that get in our way, but we should have tracked Bin Laden to any location until we got him. It never should have taken 9 years. But removing the Taliban from power? I don't think any American should risk their life so some Afghani girl can go to school. I don't give a shit. My tribe is the US. I want as many allies as possible that want to work with us rather than against us.
And I say the same thing about WW2. That French and British school kids don't sing " God Bless America" every morning before school, is a god damn joke. How many of you are willing to go fight and die for human rights in Saudi Arabia. None of you. So why take that risk to countries we weren't obliged through a treaty to help or had never helped us. America got its price though. It got assets and military supremacy across the globe. Could you imagine a South Korean military base adjacent to DC? South Korean soldiers set up and walking as occupiers? There'd be riots in the streets. So the idea that WW2 was from some noble desire to protect Democracy or protect the Jews, think again. Getting assets in Iraq wasn't worth the price. Just as getting assets in NK isn't worth the price. But knocking out their army and government with demonstrated precision? I'll have that discussion.
Re: US Politics Thread
If he truly has ICBMs....and I mean real ones....not like Scuds that land in a pond....then yes they have to be taken out.
Under the right conditions(unlikely) you could do an extremely surgical strike where you simply destroy the missiles and keep all casualties down. Then walk out. Don't comment publicly even though the world sees it unfolding and don't gloat, and NO Twitter wars. Basically like an old Israeli commando operation. Get er done....get out.
I would imagine such a scenario would actually get Russian/Chinese approval as it shows the US is not interested in a new strategic vassal state to encircle them. Then attempt to open up diplomatic channels.
Yes it is a risk. To do anything there means they've got to be willing to do anything....and suffer the consequences.
It would be unprecedented. In modern times anyways. No one knows what it would be like to engage NK on such a level. Diplomacy now is bordering on a joke. Are they like a junior high school bully where if you bitch slap them, they start showing some respect or do they go into murder-suicide mode like Klebold/Harris?
And I say the same thing about WW2. That French and British school kids don't sing " God Bless America" every morning before school, is a god damn joke.
I wish I could remember which book it was in but it was talking about when Reagan went to Normandy. The french officials started complaining about too many Americans being there for the photo ops/speech. A secret service agent got pissed, walked up to them, and then said you sure weren't saying that on June 6th, 1944. 
Re: US Politics Thread
Actually...that may be his most diplomatic line regarding these varioues crisis yet. Its not much different than the cliche "ALL options are on the table" said by presidents since Moses wore short pants. Everybody knows what ALL means.
having said that, I don't like the way he delivers his lines. Its extremely unprofessional, he says it with no power/authority behind it, etc. Hell, he wont even look straight at the camera when sending this message.
When Reagan spoke...the world listened(and very carefully). Same with Kennedy. Same with....
But THIS....as I've said many times(even before he was elected)....it just feels like the latest soundbites from his reality show. I don't sense the seriousness of the crisis in his words. That's not good when its technically the most powerful man in the world speaking.
He needs to somehow properly learn his way into the role he's now in. Obama hit some speed bumps early on. So did Clinton. Hell, so did Bush.
Pull yourself together....and stand firm. Shit.
Re: US Politics Thread
But he thinks he's doing great. One of the reasons is he surrounds himself with sycophants who tell him that he is the greatest President the world has ever known. And he will unleash fire and fury like the world has never known. And when he farts, it smells like roses...like the world has never known!
