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buzzsaw
 Rep: 423 

Re: US Politics Thread

buzzsaw wrote:
mitchejw wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:

Don’t you love it when a man who can’t read pretends he can?

https://www.politico.com/story/2012/06/ … ess-077988

Nice pivot...i was talking about tax returns...what are you talking about? I

Is it in the constitution that he has to release his tax return or is that an everyone else jumped off the cliff so he has to do it too thing?

buzzsaw
 Rep: 423 

Re: US Politics Thread

buzzsaw wrote:
bigbri wrote:

Here’s Trump not affecting cost of health care again.


[/embed]

Its impossible to have any meaningful conversation on this subject when you refuse to acknowledge how many working people got absolutely fucked by Obamacare and what it did to their healthcare costs.

bigbri
 Rep: 341 

Re: US Politics Thread

bigbri wrote:

I agree it hurt people. How badly and how many I’m sure we wouldn’t agree on. Now, can’t you agree a great number of people were saved because they could get insurance and also that this continual degradation by Trump and the GOP of the ACA without a plan to take its place is not a real solution?

mitchejw
 Rep: 130 

Re: US Politics Thread

mitchejw wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:
mitchejw wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:

Don’t you love it when a man who can’t read pretends he can?

https://www.politico.com/story/2012/06/ … ess-077988

Nice pivot...i was talking about tax returns...what are you talking about? I

Is it in the constitution that he has to release his tax return or is that an everyone else jumped off the cliff so he has to do it too thing?

Right...trump should never have to do anything he doesn’t want to do...because he’s so rich, white and bigly.

You defend his actions and behavior at every turn don’t you? Then in a few posts you’ll claim you’re not a supporter.

buzzsaw
 Rep: 423 

Re: US Politics Thread

buzzsaw wrote:
mitchejw wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:
mitchejw wrote:

Nice pivot...i was talking about tax returns...what are you talking about? I

Is it in the constitution that he has to release his tax return or is that an everyone else jumped off the cliff so he has to do it too thing?

Right...trump should never have to do anything he doesn’t want to do...because he’s so rich, white and bigly.

You defend his actions and behavior at every turn don’t you? Then in a few posts you’ll claim you’re not a supporter.

There's no action here to defend. He's under no obligation to do something just because people think he should.  I didn't and will not vote for the guy, but I don't have this personal vendetta against him like you do.

buzzsaw
 Rep: 423 

Re: US Politics Thread

buzzsaw wrote:
bigbri wrote:

I agree it hurt people. How badly and how many I’m sure we wouldn’t agree on. Now, can’t you agree a great number of people were saved because they could get insurance and also that this continual degradation by Trump and the GOP of the ACA without a plan to take its place is not a real solution?

Tell me what plan could be put in place that will not further fuck the working class or the people with preexisting conditions? There's a natural contradiction there in that there's really no way to protect both in the current environment. Now things will be worse as neither side will be protected.  But hey, let's blame trump for that instead of Obama for fucking it up in the first place.

PaSnow
 Rep: 205 

Re: US Politics Thread

PaSnow wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:
mitchejw wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:

Is it in the constitution that he has to release his tax return or is that an everyone else jumped off the cliff so he has to do it too thing?

Right...trump should never have to do anything he doesn’t want to do...because he’s so rich, white and bigly.

You defend his actions and behavior at every turn don’t you? Then in a few posts you’ll claim you’re not a supporter.

There's no action here to defend. He's under no obligation to do something just because people think he should.  I didn't and will not vote for the guy, but I don't have this personal vendetta against him like you do.

Every President for nearly the past 50 years has released their tax returns in an effort of transparency. Unlike his claim, Trump is the least transparent president of our lifetime.

FTR, there isn't anything in the 'constitutional' that Obama had to release his birth certificate either, only that a President needs to be born in the US. Trump chose to go full Alex Jones stupid on that one. Now the tables have turned & he's a big fraud.

buzzsaw
 Rep: 423 

Re: US Politics Thread

buzzsaw wrote:
PaSnow wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:
mitchejw wrote:

Right...trump should never have to do anything he doesn’t want to do...because he’s so rich, white and bigly.

You defend his actions and behavior at every turn don’t you? Then in a few posts you’ll claim you’re not a supporter.

There's no action here to defend. He's under no obligation to do something just because people think he should.  I didn't and will not vote for the guy, but I don't have this personal vendetta against him like you do.

Every President for nearly the past 50 years has released their tax returns in an effort of transparency. Unlike his claim, Trump is the least transparent president of our lifetime.

FTR, there isn't anything in the 'constitutional' that Obama had to release his birth certificate either, only that a President needs to be born in the US. Trump chose to go full Alex Jones stupid on that one. Now the tables have turned & he's a big fraud.

Well, you do need to be able to provide proof of where you were born though I do not know who manages the HR or I-9 aspect of the white house, but regardless you're talking to the wrong guy because I never said a peep about that one either.  You guys are much better at the nitpicking of things than I am.  I acknowledge the flaws of both parties...honestly much more so than I do their strengths.  In that way we're not that different.  I've said before: you guys get it half right...

It makes no difference what everyone has done or why they've done it.  That still doesn't mean he or any other person has to do it.  Plenty of people do things I would never do, so I've never found that to be a persuasive argument.

buzzsaw
 Rep: 423 

Re: US Politics Thread

buzzsaw wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:
bigbri wrote:

I agree it hurt people. How badly and how many I’m sure we wouldn’t agree on. Now, can’t you agree a great number of people were saved because they could get insurance and also that this continual degradation by Trump and the GOP of the ACA without a plan to take its place is not a real solution?

Tell me what plan could be put in place that will not further fuck the working class or the people with preexisting conditions? There's a natural contradiction there in that there's really no way to protect both in the current environment. Now things will be worse as neither side will be protected.  But hey, let's blame trump for that instead of Obama for fucking it up in the first place.

I want to go back to this now that I'm on my laptop and not the phone.

Healthcare has been an issue going back to before Clinton.  It's never been quite right...there have been issues around costs sharing and premiums for as long as I've been aware that such a thing even existed.  I had to declare bankruptcy after a surgery when I was insured and about 20 years old because even with the insurance, I couldn't afford the 30K or so in medical bills I was left with.  My wife is a diabetic.  I'm more aware than most of the issues with preexisting conditions as well.  None of these are things I am not personally concerned about as they affect me directly or they have in the past.

Before Obamacare, I had relatively affordable premiums.  They weren't cheap because my wife is a diabetic, so we always paid for the highest premium, lowest deductible/co-pay plan available to limit our exposure to unexpected expenses.  Basically we are risk-adverse.  Well post-Obamacare, because of the coverages mandated, our premiums have skyrocketed.  Now if that was the only problem, that would be okay; we'd survive.  No, now on top of skyrocketing premiums, we now have deductibles that have skyrocketed as well so they don't get a Cadillac plan tax.  So instead of coverage that was useful, we now have what basically amounts to catastrophic coverage meaning it only covers us if something really, really bad happens.  What difference does it make if a preexisting coverage is covered if you don't hit the ridiculously high deductible?  Let's start with this as it is the "easiest" thing to fix out there.  How do you propose fixing it in a way that doesn't tax people to death?

Randall Flagg
 Rep: 139 

Re: US Politics Thread

The tax return demands is nothing more than a game of political oneupsmanship. Mueller just cleared Trump of collusion, if there was anything in his returns, it would have came out then.

This is political grandstanding that will result in nothing more than the children of the DNC spreading more rumors and conjecture that isn’t based on fact. Mnuchin is right, and no court is going to find for the Democrats on this, especially after Mueller declared no collusion.

They want this to selectively leak information to attack Trump, not to govern or legislate.

Buzzsaw is right. Both parties have been absolutely abhorrent the past decade, and only the truly partisans fail to see it.

Trump isn’t going to be impeached or indicted. Beat him at the election booth under the rules of the constitution.

You can take the politico article I linked earlier and swap Holder for Barr and Republicans for Democrats, and it’d read exactly the same. If you don’t see that, you’re the one with blinders on.

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