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James
 Rep: 664 

Re: UYI Box tracklist unveiled?

James wrote:
Sky Dog wrote:

Are we over thinking this a bit?

The only thing important in this box set is the full live shows. DTJ and YCBM are wicked.

I’m excited to hear the shows in full.

The people overthinking it are the types like I saw at mygnr yesterday dying to hear the rest of the albums... apparently not knowing the difference between a remix and a remaster.

The remaster is just a spit shine of something that has already been spit shined and as we know from the audiophiles, the spit shine isn't any good.

The only thing that mattered on the albums is November Rain.

Now the only thing that matters is the Ritz...and of course some are excited for Vegas.

James
 Rep: 664 

Re: UYI Box tracklist unveiled?

James wrote:
Smoking Guns wrote:
Blackstar wrote:

Axl originally wanted to record November Rain with real instruments, but said he didn't know how to work with an orchestra, so he opted to emulate it with the synths.

Axl: [Being asked if he'd really quit the band if November Rain wasn't done properly]: Well, it wasn’t necessarily quit the band. It was just, like, to do that song the way I wanted to do it. I knew that we were going to need a lot of freedom and a lot of time to learn how to do things that we didn’t know how to do, or I didn’t know how to do. I mean, there’s, like, 31 different string sections on there, and I had to do them on keyboards, because I knew I didn’t know how to communicate with an orchestra well enough. And just I knew years ago, in starting writing the song, that it was going to take a lot for us to pull it off the way I could hear it in my head, you know. And that’s just like, I knew that when I said I’d quit the business, it was because I knew that the only reason that I wouldn’t get this right is if I wasn’t allowed to. [Rockline, Nov. 27, 1991]

Axl: What was really wild about it was being just overwhelmed by the sounds and working with all these new sounds. I mean, I’m in a rock band where you just work with – most of the time Guns N’ Roses just works with guitars, drums, vocals, bass. But working with the strings, and flugelhorns, and certain bells –and “is it the right bell?” It was almost like it was magical. [...]  I realized I only had one week, and just no way I was gonna learn how to communicate with an orchestra. So we brought in, like, eight synthesizers. For eight hours I just sat there and played strings to November Rain over and over and over, and picked every single string sound to create my own 130 piece orchestra. We went through, like, three thousand sounds. We had to sit there and go, “Wait, is that one sound more real than that one?” [...] One of the reasons for having an orchestra in the video [was that] it was one of the only ways to actually get to be around an orchestra and see what that was like; to see what was like to hear an orchestra actually play something I had written on keyboards, and see how well it worked and talk with the orchestra a bit about that. It’s not something I wanted to hide from the public and act like I used real strings. I wanted to say, “No, we did this on synthesizers.” For me, putting the orchestra in the video, I don’t think it was faking anything, because they were really playing when they were there. The sound you’re hearing when you see the video is what I play, but when we did the video they were actually playing; and it was a way for me to be around an orchestra and see that, because it’s not like I have time or cash to just go and set up an orchestra somewhere. It has to be for something productive and this definitely was. [November Rain: Makin' F@*!ing Videos Part II, June 22, 1993]

So probably to him the song now sounds like it should always have, the way he had envisioned it originally.

But yes, it's a shame that the original becomes kind of "obsolete" with this release. I agree that it should have been remastered and included in the reissue, because Axl's really impressive work of creating that virtual orchestra with all those sounds is part of the story of the song and the product of his talent and creativity. And he hasn't really got enough credit for that (at least outside the hardcore fanbase), because most people never knew about it and thought it was a real orchestra like in the video.

Simply incredible.

The real incredible thing about those Blackstar quotes is how it never dawned on him to hand over his completed tracks which would have allowed an orchestra to tackle the song.

It's not like Axl or Geffen were against delaying the records to continue recording. It had already happened several times at that point.


Credit where it's due though....his work is impressive. It reminds me of Waters having to come up with stuff from scratch for Dark Side of the Moon.

polluxlm
 Rep: 220 

Re: UYI Box tracklist unveiled?

polluxlm wrote:

So he's become George Lucas now has he?

Young, amateur Axl is far superior to old, "knows more" Axl.

monkeychow
 Rep: 661 

Re: UYI Box tracklist unveiled?

monkeychow wrote:

It does remind me of the george lucas situation where the technology of the 1997 Starwars is better - space ship compositing etc - but the creative choices may not be - Han shooting last etc.

It's a bit like that - the sound quality here is awesome, and the full orchestra is beautiful - but the mixing choices of which instruments to highlight at certain parts may not be.

Even though the new version sounds better in some ways, I actually think the outro section the creatives choices of the 1991 version are superior. I really wish they'd given us both. I guess we have the old version at least - but I would have liked a remaster of it as well.

James
 Rep: 664 

Re: UYI Box tracklist unveiled?

James wrote:
polluxlm wrote:

So he's become George Lucas now has he?

Young, amateur Axl is far superior to old, "knows more" Axl.

I was referring to 1991 Axl.

What did present day Axl do? I'd wager he had nothing to do with anything but signing off on it....and he may not have even done that. TB may have signed off on it.

Orchestra played their parts, Wilson mixed it, got a spit shine from someone else, then wrapped in cellophane.

Where's Axl?

polluxlm
 Rep: 220 

Re: UYI Box tracklist unveiled?

polluxlm wrote:

That's a good point. When Axl did it, it sounded better.

It could be the case of somebody suggesting this to him as promotion for the release and it would be cool to finally do it. Would explain the haphazard result.

But he signed off on it. When George Lucas thought to himself "I want Greedo to shoot first", that's one thing, another is to the see the terrible final product and release it in theaters. SCOM was weird and out there, but the ideas made sense and sounded good for what they were. This is just a mess.

Blackstar
 Rep: 11 

Re: UYI Box tracklist unveiled?

Blackstar wrote:

Even if it wasn't Axl's idea and he wasn't involved with the process, he would have to be totally on board, especially regarding the new mix replacing the original. TB couldn't have signed off on his behalf for that.

But I think he was involved, not necessarily by physically being in the studio with the orchestra or Steven Wilson, but by approving what they did. This was posted by the arranger of the orchestra:

2022_719.jpg

Axl appears as co-arranger on the sheet.

Side note: Doug Mark, who recommended Lennertz, is Axl's lawyer for copyright issues. He handled the case of the Rapidfire demos and the case of the locker leaks.

monkeychow
 Rep: 661 

Re: UYI Box tracklist unveiled?

monkeychow wrote:

I think someone from the band would have signed off on the mix.

I'm really struggling with it cos I actually like the new strings, for my taste I just need the outro mix changed up a bit cos the way those huge marshalls kick in during the outro was very emotional and it feels neutered now lol.

Re: UYI Box tracklist unveiled?

Sky Dog wrote:

You’re all crazy…just listen to your CD’s you bought in 1991 and be happy.

metallex78
 Rep: 194 

Re: UYI Box tracklist unveiled?

metallex78 wrote:
Sky Dog wrote:

You’re all crazy…just listen to your CD’s you bought in 1991 and be happy.

Who listens to CDs these days? It’s all about streaming.

But if you want to stream the new remastered UYI albums, November Rain won’t have the original remastered, it’ll have this new remixed version sitting in with the rest of the remastered tracks.

I’m with Monkey, I would rather have the original remastered and this new remix as a bonus.

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