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Re: The Gloves are off, I have to know.....
I haven't read every post but I will. I don't mind people criticizing me at all
let me preface some of this by saying
I said 75 percent. I do agree CD has some great guitar moments which makes the really awful ones even more inexcusable. I do love If The World, Sorry, The CD solos are pretty damn good............. I wasn't trying to say Bucket's playing was Nu metalish, there are some guitar moments that make me think nu metal.
Bucket's Sorry and Twat solos are among some of the best GNR solos, I give him those props
then though, u get to songs like TIL and Catcher and u just have to wonder why Axl let those solos in? The Catcher solo completely rapes that song for me. I just absolutely hate everything about it. TIL is the same way.
I still can't help but wonder WTF on IRS? that song guitar riff wise is just a huge BLAH moment.....
Bass guitar??????????? where the fuck is it?
A huge part that makes a band awesome is the foundation, the way a bass player and a drummer groove together. Take Duff/Adler, Flea/Chad Smith............
U can really tell the drums and bass were recorded years apart because CD has zero groove whatsoever. the over done Pro Tools stuff sucks the life out of a lot of songs that should be more killer. Better for instance. U have that great guitar breakdown section before the Axl scream "I never wanted u to be so full of anger............. parts" That guitar section rocks but the drums and those little super mario fart bubble noises kill the intensity in that section for me.
Maybe my problem is the same reason I hated the First New Batman movie. I just couldn't separate it from the Tim Burton one which I love.
Of course The Dark Knight came a long and its one of my favorites ever.
so I am hopeful that the next CD will really blow me away.
Regarding the bass, we all talk about how Madagascar was best at Rio. I agree, but I also think that Chinese Democracy and The Blues were better at Rio as well. Go back and listen to those quicker paced versions. I believe that that was the band Tommy signed up for. The bass and drums on those versions are rocking and Tommy is clearly jacked up to be on that stage and his bass is very prominent in the mix...that is Tommy's type of music. CD sounds kind of punk and The Blues is just a nice mid tempo song. Madagascar is fucking epic and Tommy is locked in with Brain all throughout Bucket's killer solo. By 2002, the life had been sucked out of those three tracks in my opinion.:mad:
Re: The Gloves are off, I have to know.....
I haven't read every post but I will. I don't mind people criticizing me at all
let me preface some of this by saying
I said 75 percent. I do agree CD has some great guitar moments which makes the really awful ones even more inexcusable. I do love If The World, Sorry, The CD solos are pretty damn good............. I wasn't trying to say Bucket's playing was Nu metalish, there are some guitar moments that make me think nu metal.
Bucket's Sorry and Twat solos are among some of the best GNR solos, I give him those props
then though, u get to songs like TIL and Catcher and u just have to wonder why Axl let those solos in? The Catcher solo completely rapes that song for me. I just absolutely hate everything about it. TIL is the same way.
I still can't help but wonder WTF on IRS? that song guitar riff wise is just a huge BLAH moment.....
Bass guitar??????????? where the fuck is it?
A huge part that makes a band awesome is the foundation, the way a bass player and a drummer groove together. Take Duff/Adler, Flea/Chad Smith............
U can really tell the drums and bass were recorded years apart because CD has zero groove whatsoever. the over done Pro Tools stuff sucks the life out of a lot of songs that should be more killer. Better for instance. U have that great guitar breakdown section before the Axl scream "I never wanted u to be so full of anger............. parts" That guitar section rocks but the drums and those little super mario fart bubble noises kill the intensity in that section for me.
Maybe my problem is the same reason I hated the First New Batman movie. I just couldn't separate it from the Tim Burton one which I love.
Of course The Dark Knight came a long and its one of my favorites ever.
so I am hopeful that the next CD will really blow me away.
Yeah, but the problem is CD is more of a 'Halloween III' rather than a 'Batman Begins'.
It's like a totally seperate universe, with familiar themes, but a totally different thing. You love it or hate it. I'm sure CD will get it's own cult following in the GN'R fans, no doubt.
Axl certaintly doesn't have The Dark Knight of records waiting the wings, I guarantee you. 
Re: The Gloves are off, I have to know.....
Regarding the bass, we all talk about how Madagascar was best at Rio. I agree, but I also think that Chinese Democracy and The Blues were better at Rio as well. Go back and listen to those quicker paced versions. I believe that that was the band Tommy signed up for. The bass and drums on those versions are rocking and Tommy is clearly jacked up to be on that stage and his bass is very prominent in the mix...that is Tommy's type of music. CD sounds kind of punk and The Blues is just a nice mid tempo song. Madagascar is fucking epic and Tommy is locked in with Brain all throughout Bucket's killer solo. By 2002, the life had been sucked out of those three tracks in my opinion.:mad:
What a difference a year makes. 
I think that shows that those tracks(especially Madagascar) were running out of steam already. The new songs were already receiving makeovers. In hindsight, that wasn't a good sign. The songs received another makeover in 2006.
Whether or not you like these songs, it basically became a "polishing a turd" scenario.
Looking back, I think one of the key mistakes was the presentation. Each time the band unveiled itself, it was "we're back.....Chinese Democracy starts NOW!!". Obviously it never started. What should have happened is Axl should have taken a page out of the playbook of such bands as Soundgarden and REM and basically tell the public you are 'road testing' new material, and let your mini tours revolve around this fact. There wouldn't have been near as much pressure, and he could have easily confined such a tour to theaters/clubs if/when the arenas weren't selling. It also would have been a way to showcase the new songs instead of allowing the AFD rehash to dominate the new era.
Another key mistake was not moving on from the 2001-02 material. When you're touring in 2007 on the back of 1987 and unreleased 01-02 songs, the situation cried out for a 'plan B'. Joe public had heard those "new" songs for 7 years, so advertising them as new was a bit insulting. Any dipshit with a computer who even had mild interest in this band had heard those tracks already. That in and of itself played a role in the continuation of the pop culture joke the project became.
new fan: Thanks for buying me tickets to the GNR show, Dad. They're my favorite band now!! I don't know who's in the band, but they're gonna play a bunch of songs off of AFD and they're gonna play some seven year old new songs that I've heard a million times. Guess what?? Those new songs sound progressively worse each time they get played!!!
I don't think I need to point out all that is wrong with that statement above, and that was the reality for many new fans since this era started.
- BrokenGlassNCigs
- Rep: 25
Re: The Gloves are off, I have to know.....
Gonna have to disagree here. Finck's solo on "This I Love" is absolutely brilliant, imo.
Re: The Gloves are off, I have to know.....
oh yeah, about the Blues at RIR 3
That version STILL ranks up there almost with Estranged for me
What the fuck happened between 01 and now?
I can barely listen to it now and that kills me cause that song at Rio, everything was perfect, even finck who I have a long history of hating was awesome on it.
Re: The Gloves are off, I have to know.....
James, the songs are good...you are not polishing a turd. You are taking an inherently well written song, spinning it in 200 different circles, then throwing a dart at a dartboard to figure out what version you like best. The songs had meaning in early 00, they got progressively homogenized by 02 and 06 and 08.:headbang:
Re: The Gloves are off, I have to know.....
James, what statement above? Mine?
I was referring to that hypothetical statement I wrote from 'new fan'.
The songs were fresh then...in 2001 and I would imagine the versions that they recorded then were fresh and hot. That is when the album should have been released 2001-2002. The songs are good...you are not polishing a turd. You are taking an inherently well written song, spinning it in 200 different circles, then throwing a dart at a dartboard to figure out what version you like best. The songs had meaning in early 00, they got progressively homogenized by 02 and 06 and 08.
I'd give my left nut(and probably the right as well) to hear that 2001 record that Zutuat praised last year in Classic Rock. He basically said it shits all over what we have heard, and its not a stretch to agree with him even though we never heard it.
While I do like the album version of the title track and its one of my favorites, its just missing everything that made me love the track after hearing the song on the HOB bootleg years ago. The 01 version is gritty, mean, and has attitude oozing from it, and those things were lost in translation from point A to point Z.
I just wish he had confidence in the material back then. It was when this material should have been dropped on the masses. The record would still be lacking a massive hit, but he was never gonna write a massive hit anyways so there was no point in stringing everyone along until the songs were irrelevant. Now he has to deal with a world at large that doesn't give a shit and a hardcore fan base waiting on album number 2 when album number 1 is still hanging by a thread on the charts.
No matter how you try and crumble this cookie, this cant be how he envisioned this thing turning out.
Re: The Gloves are off, I have to know.....
Well for me there is no solo on the entire album that I wait for. You know that killer moment where the guitar takes over. Robin's sublime solo at the end of Better is the closest it gets but that solo is too damn short.
Buckethead's solo at the end of TWAT is fine but it's not this masterpiece solo that everyone has made it out to be. Sure it's the highlight of the song but it's the highlight of a shitty song. The solo adds nothing to the song and in fact trys to distance itself from the song. I guess for good reason. It's a decent solo but for me I find nothing memorable about it. Just a solo for the sake of a solo and more often than not I think those are stupid even if they are good. .
I think Robin's solo on This I Love is actually pretty good. I'll take back what I said about the album not having a solo I wait for. The Solo on This I Love is the most well placed solo on the album and it compliments the song better than any solo on the album.
Re: The Gloves are off, I have to know.....
The problem with TWAT for me is the supposed chorus of "it's been a long (wrong) time for me" part...the guitar chords are hamfisted and the chorus is just weak. The verses are great, but the chorus sucks. That is the difference between it and Nov Rain as far as the first half of the song goes. Both outros are perfect in my opinion, but the first half goes to Nov Rain just because of the chorus.:rock:
