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Wagszilla
 Rep: 40 

Re: The Creative Crisis of Guns N' Roses

Wagszilla wrote:
monkeychow wrote:

I think this will be the major problem.

I think the labels would be falling over themselves to make a new GNR record with both Axl and Slash..even a bad selling GNR record will sell more than many of the bands they still back.

From my Breaking Down The Loot thread:

Billboard wrote:

The band was able to rack up... $2 million in music sales and streams as well.

For comparison, Beyoncé released a new album in 2016, one that was officially declared the best-selling album of the year at that, and still only brought in $7.7 million from those categories.

Yes and no.

Beyonce releases the AFD of Pop Music last year and it only nets $7.7 million in sales.

In comparison, GN'R's entire back catalogue moves $2.2mil and The Stones not much more at ~$5mil.

So yes, the label would be interested in making a commercially friendly album that could sell.

But they won't sell the farm to do so. Not to a farmer who burnt down their last one or that wants to sell organic beet and kale shakes to a fanbase looking for red meat popsicles.

elevendayempire
 Rep: 78 

Re: The Creative Crisis of Guns N' Roses

monkeychow wrote:
Wagszilla wrote:

Going even further, can we expect Axl to make peace with the record company? Can we expect the record company to give into Axl's demands given he isn't a marketable artist anymore? And without a cut of the tour profits?

I think this will be the major problem.

I think the labels would be falling over themselves to make a new GNR record with both Axl and Slash..even a bad selling GNR record will sell more than many of the bands they still back. Sure it won't be like the UYI era top of popular culture era...but if they can sell records from The Darkness and Buckcherry and similar acts then a reunion album is no brainer.

But..they are not going to want to spend a fortune on it given modern sales, and, they would most likely prefer a cut of other revenues or some type of 360 deal.

Meanwhile...Axl and co already have no love for the labels....and are also unlikely to want to work within a budget....and are more likely to want retro style marketing or tour promotion funds and that type of thing....

It's hard too because record companies often ARE assholes, meanwhile we know Axl will shoot himself in the foot rather than back down or do something he doesn't wanna do. Just look at the lame release CD got in the end.


Wagszilla wrote:

Can we expect Slash and Duff to be enthusiastic about rerecording CDII?

This bit doesn't worry me as much.

They seem of with doing the CD songs live, and in fact, they seem to have put a lot of effort into really owning them for themselves.

So I could see them going into the studio and dismantling the guitar parts around Axl's lyrics and really owning them too.

I think Axl would be cool with it too considering he was letting DJ and Bumble do the same thing with CD after it came out and toying with a re-release.

Of course the risk is that it's too industrial for slash even if he rocked it up, but you'd think maybe that could be fixed by letting him add 1 or 2 new songs of Slash/Duff origin to go with it.

In a world where Slash plays This I Love, Chinese Democracy, Catcher in the Rye and Better all the time...I can see him rocking out versions of Axl's other albums. He might prefer it to doing nothing too....like sure he can go back to SMKC for a fun smaller scale tour for a year or two....but what then...it will be time for more GNR....

My worry is they are going to run out of time though, simply because they take the time with projects as if they are 20 year olds when they're in their 50s or whatever now.

I wouldn't worry about them running out of time; Axl, by all accounts, had a follow-up album to Chinese Democracy ready to release before the "regrouping", but the record company wanted nothing to do with it (probably because it had Ashba and Bumblefoot all over it and they knew Slash and Duff were already waiting in the wings...). Given that it took Slash and Duff all of a couple of weeks to stamp their mark all over the existing Chinese Democracy tracks, it would be the work of moments for them to do the same with the follow-up album. Indeed, wasn't MSL saying that there was already a version of Atlas Shrugged with rerecorded Slash and Duff guitar and bass?

Slash and Duff work quickly; the stuff that stalled the process on Chinese Democracy – Axl setting words down on paper – is already over and done with.

The last thing to worry about is the current state of Axl's voice. I mean, ffs, he still has unused vocal tracks sitting in the vault from 1999 that they could rework.

sp1at
 Rep: 24 

Re: The Creative Crisis of Guns N' Roses

sp1at wrote:

I think GN'R should be put to rest once the tour has run dry. They have done the right thing and filled their pension pots, but they need to go and live their lives and do other projects. Rock isn't "in" just now, I do not see the point in new albums 30 years on.

The label can release all the vault material on generic greatest hit releases and whatever else.

Wagszilla
 Rep: 40 

Re: The Creative Crisis of Guns N' Roses

Wagszilla wrote:

The irony is CDII is probably relevant musically if it is heavy electronica but irrelevant given the subject matter.

It's also more likely to be viewed as "not Guns N' Roses".

Metallica's new record, not to taste, at least grapples at some contemporary issues.

sp1at wrote:

I think GN'R should be put to rest once the tour has run dry.

In your view, would that be at the end of the year? I mean, they could conceivably lube the machine back up later on for a true farewell tour.

Although for all his flaws, Axl strikes me as one to go out like a gentleman and not draw any attention to it.

sp1at wrote:

The label can release all the vault material on generic greatest hit releases and whatever else.

Jackie Chan as Guns N' Roses equivalent of "You Know You're Right" on a new Greatest Hits would bait most.

sp1at
 Rep: 24 

Re: The Creative Crisis of Guns N' Roses

sp1at wrote:
Wagszilla wrote:

The irony is CDII is probably relevant musically if it is heavy electronica but irrelevant given the subject matter.

It's also more likely to be viewed as "not Guns N' Roses".

Metallica's new record, not to taste, at least grapples at some contemporary issues.

sp1at wrote:

I think GN'R should be put to rest once the tour has run dry.

In your view, would that be at the end of the year? I mean, they could conceivably lube the machine back up later on for a true farewell tour.

Although for all his flaws, Axl strikes me as one to go out like a gentleman and not draw any attention to it.

sp1at wrote:

The label can release all the vault material on generic greatest hit releases and whatever else.

Jackie Chan as Guns N' Roses equivalent of "You Know You're Right" on a new Greatest Hits would bait most.

The band are not calling it a day, it is just my opinion.

Axl DC is set for 2018, that is a public thing.

misterID
 Rep: 435 

Re: The Creative Crisis of Guns N' Roses

misterID wrote:
sp1at wrote:

I think GN'R should be put to rest once the tour has run dry. They have done the right thing and filled their pension pots, but they need to go and live their lives and do other projects. Rock isn't "in" just now, I do not see the point in new albums 30 years on.

The label can release all the vault material on generic greatest hit releases and whatever else.

This thinking is just... Ridiculous. Seriously. They should do what they want. I think bands retiring only to pop back up later because its not a switch you can flip, is almost as lame as fans wanting them to retire.

Christ on a cracker, if you feel like that just walkaway.

Wagszilla
 Rep: 40 

Re: The Creative Crisis of Guns N' Roses

Wagszilla wrote:

It's really not ridiculous.

If anyone in GN'R is taking counsel, that is probably the recommendation. Financial advisors, managers, the works. Leave 'em wanting more. Don't tarnish your legacy. And so forth.

Of course, they're gonna do what they want. The fans aren't going to spook them in one way or another. People are allowed to have opinions.

I mean, a reoccurring theme of this very thread was the Guns N' Roses brand as Axl's creative albatross.

I'd like a farewell GN'R EP/LP with a new tour. Spruce up the '96 sessions. Say goodbye. Then Axl starting a new band and performing/releasing music on the regular. That'd be my dream scenario.

misterID
 Rep: 435 

Re: The Creative Crisis of Guns N' Roses

misterID wrote:

It is ridiculous, there's no need to do it. Its your hang up, not anyone else's, especially not the band. And no financial advisor is telling someone with one the biggest profitable tours in music to hang it up. That's not happening. I mean... Yeah. They're telling them how to capitalize on it. Say good bye.... Because a minority inside a minority of a minority of your fan base wants it? That's ridiculous, and anyone advising them of it should be fired.

James Lofton
 Rep: 608 

Re: The Creative Crisis of Guns N' Roses

James Lofton wrote:

Someone on sludge posted the numbers for this show....


08/19/17
Guns N' Roses, Our Lady Peace
Parc Jean-Drapeau
Montreal, Quebec
Live Nation/evenko
1/0
2,539,510
23,117 / 27,685
83.5%
$318.44, $49.44
(6,488 were comps)

25% of that crowd was papered?!? Really? That's a sign that ticket prices need to come down....



He's supposed to post the rest of the numbers on the summer tour when he gets them. After seeing that, I'm really looking forward to it. I thought this thing was doing gangbusters. Shows how much I pay attention....

Wagszilla
 Rep: 40 

Re: The Creative Crisis of Guns N' Roses

Wagszilla wrote:

A compelling argument to be sure. I was following sp1at's premise of another leg without an album but you know, keep 'em coming.

James, I didn't look intimately at the 2016 numbers when putting together the Breaking Down The Loot post to account for all variables but I saw a high number of sellouts and Wiki says selling 96% of capacity, so near sellouts every gig. They were impressive numbers last year and I had strong suspicions some were artificially inflated.

For the Canada gig, even without comps, that's 83% of capacity on a smaller venue. It's Canada, I'm not sure what history dictates to track. Off the cuff, maybe a more difficult market.

So yes, the numbers aren't trending well. You're seeing increasing downward velocity. Lower price penetration point and/or greater incentive are necessary.

By the way, the Nightrain AFD lithos have gone out to a select group. Nada special.

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